Micro/Biology

» Judy Arbique - treatment

In response to treatment posted by manasquan:

Klebsielle pneumoniae is a normal colonizer of the bowel. I am surprised that this would be considered dysbiotic flora. Where and why did you have this analysis performed?

Taking antibiotics to "treat" or eliminate normal bowel bacteria does not seem like a good idea and could lead to problems...resistant bacteria and the opportunity for smaller numbered but more virulent bacteria to compete for space in the bowel.

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» bks101 - treatment

In response to treatment posted by arbiquej:

I am a RN with access to my records prior to the doc even seeing them. I checked out my results of my pap test which stated normal except change in vaginal flora suggesting vaginal bacterial vaginosis. I have a white thick smooth discharge with an odor. I was suspicious, already, however, she did not notice on examination and i didn't say anything to see if the doc could physically assess and catch it, of course not. Then about a week later, I am sick with pubic pain, abdominal fullness, urgency to urinate , burning and urgency to defecate. I could not take it anymore and left in the middle of my shift to emergency clinic which is rare for me to do. They found high rates of K pneumonia in my urine. I am beginning to think it is in my vagina and in my rectum out of the normal rate it should be. I am still fatigued, have urgency, a little better, eyes fill tired and still have this discharge, It is not a yeast infection, i know what that is. I recently had abn ANA
s and high viral load of herpes simples one which i am now taking a maintenance dose to keep it under control. I believe I have multiple coinfections which is part of this Morgellons syndrome which is why i may have ended up like this. I can't remember when i had a uti, ever. Any comments or suggestions would be great.

-- posted by bks101

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» Judy Arbique - treatment

In response to treatment posted by bks101:

Most urinary tract infections do originate from bacteria that are normally found in the bowel. As you are probably well aware, females have a greater risk of UTI than men because of the proximity of the urethra with the vagina and rectum. In addition women have a short urethra so that organisms that invade the urethra have a shorter path to reach the bladder and cause infection.

Other than in women who have a fistula or opening through the vaginal wall to the bowel, I am not aware of conditions that predispose to higher numbers of Klebsiella in the vagina. In women with vaginal fistulas, the finding of organisms like Klebsiella is not significant in itself, other than being an indication that the vagina is contaminated with organisms normally found in the bowel.

Vaginal cultures can also be extremely misleading because dependent on the length of time between collection and culture, small numbers of rapid growing organisms like Klebsiella will overgrow normal vaginal flora predominating the culture results. This is one of the reasons that vaginal smears are used to help diagnose vaginal infection. Yeast, Trichomonas and bacterial vaginosis are usually readily detectable on stained smears, and contaminating organisms (like Klebsiella) are not as likely to mask infection.

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» acaros - treatment

In response to treatment posted by manasquan:

I think that some of you ought to be a little more cautious about what you say regarding K Pneumonae. Of course it is in our system and we encounter it often, its the amount that matters. I have had strange sysmtoms all over my body for over a year. After many unsuccesful doc visits for each symptom I figured out, thanks to this fantastic tool before us, that the sum of the symptoms could mean a serious enteric infection. The symptoms were: very persistant unresponsive dermatitis in the groin, penis, most likely candida, and some brown spots, like sun spots, on my face, repeated styes in either eye and symptoms of pink eye, also getting fat, poor bowel function, bloated and terribly unmotivated and depressed. I began taking some probiotics and omega 3 out of random luck, frustration, and instinct and the following day I found and ascaris worm in the tub. Later I found more, especially after I took several courses of broad spectrum anti parasites, and finally, Albendazol specific for ascaris. Prior to taking the medications I sent a stool sample to the lab for a comprehensive $500 analysis at GDX. A month later, content that I had taken enough medication to eliminate the parasites, I received the tests results which did NOT find the ascaris, which I clearly saw, (conclusion: stool tests are quite ineffective for finding parasite ovum) but it did identify 3 abnormalities. 1. The presence of a protein which indicates a problem infection is present. 2. A K Pneumonae count Extremely higher than "normal" and 3. Very high Candida count. I am on the last day of two weeks of 1000mg/day cipro and a light dose of fluconazole to counter the yeast growing effects of the cipro and the excessive candida count already in there. Most of my year-long symtoms are either gone or fading and I feel significantly better. I hope I have solved my mysteries. Now I am going to repopulate my intestine with broad spectrum probiotics and eat a healthy diet with tons of garlic (anti parasite) Ascaris worms and ovum are very common and as with K Pneumonae, we encounter them often; in the soil especially around dogs and cats as they carry them in their feces. I don't mean to scare anyone who has high count of KP into automatically assuming they have worms, like your dog or cat, but I would say that it certainly merits concern and further evaluation. By the way, to manasquan, I am not a fan of taking antibiotics either, but I tried a bunch of organic pills, garlic, Paraguard, antifungals, immune boosters etc and it seemed they could do very little. I decided to sacrifice my flora and kick some ass with the tough anti parasites and antibiotics, making sure I took the full course and then repopulate with friendly flora.

-- posted by acaros

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» acaros - treatment

In response to treatment posted by arbiquej:

Immediately after I sent my reply to an earlier post, I read your posting and feel a little foolish, do you think that the stool tests I took could show excessive Klebsiella because they overgrew the sample? If the test is therefore incorrect, it probably changes the role of Klebsiella in my case, however I do feel and look remarkably better after taking the cipro.

-- posted by acaros

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» Judy Arbique - treatment

In response to treatment posted by acaros:

I am not a fan of antibiotics UNLESS absolutely necessary. Everytime we affect one thing, something else will be affected. Your stool results Could result from organism overgrowth (both Klebsiella and yeast), or perhaps bowel flora is changed during worm infestations.

Ascaris lumbricoides is the species of Ascaris that most often causes human infection....dog and cat infections are caused by different roundworm species. And depending on where you live Ascaris can be common or very uncommon.

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» Rosemary Drisdelle - treatment

In response to treatment posted by acaros:
I just want to make a few comments about Ascaris lumbricoides, the large intestinal roundworm of humans (I worked in clinical parasitology for many years and am very familiar with this common parasite).
- Finding it in the bathtub, or even on the pillow in the morning, is not at all uncommon as the adult worms do tend to wander. I think your identification was likely correct. It's not a very pleasant experience is it?
- Female Ascaris produce a lot of ova - 60 million in a lifetime - and these are usually easily found in stool samples. When testing for this parasite, make sure that the lab is doing a concentration method for worm ova. In some cases, even when the correct methods are used, the ova are not detected, particularly if there are very few of them, or if they are infertile (infertile ova are very light and tend to be lost during specimen processing). This is one of the reasons why many experts still recommend multiple stool samples for ova and parasites.
-Dogs and cats do have intestinal roundworms, and these can have implications for human health, but these animals do NOT carry Ascaris lumbricoides, the large intestinal roundworm of humans. Ascaris is common in warm climates where sanitation is poor and human feces contaminate the soil. People accidentally swallow the ova (which, by the way, can remain infective for a decade or more even in quite harsh climates) when they eat raw fruit and vegetables, or otherwise get dirt in their mouths from dirty hands, contaminated objects etc. Millions of people worldwide have these worms but they are not common everywhere - in colder climates and in countries where sanitation is good, the infection is relatively uncommon.
-Antiparasitic drugs tend to be quite specific. Some kill tapeworms but not roundworms; some kill protozoa but not worms. As far as I'm aware, the drug of choice for Ascaris is albendazole. This medication should only be taken under a doctor's care as side effects are possible.
I hope this clears up some confusion,
Rosemary Drisdelle

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» Judy Arbique - treatment

In response to treatment posted by rdrisdelle:

Rosemary, thanks for sharing your expertise on this topic. I can remember my Mom telling me about a worm infection in one of her sisters that I suspect was Ascaris. I expect it would be extremely scary to find a worm or worms exiting my body. I don't envy anyone who has had this experience.

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» Rosemary Drisdelle - treatment

In response to treatment posted by arbiquej:
There is more information about Ascaris lumbricoides in this article: http://human-infections.suite101.com/art...

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» Judy Arbique - treatment

In response to treatment posted by rdrisdelle:

Thanks Rosemary...excellent article. Please continue to contribute.

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